Job Offer - Best Way To Ask For More Money

"MooseKnuckles" (andyschenk) 04/16/2014 at 18:11 • Filed to: None

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My current contract ends May 24th and unfortunately there is nothing available for me with the same employer in the near future. I've been lucky while in school with this employer and right now they are paying me exceptionally well. I just finished school, so anything I apply for is going to be entry level, I know I'm going to take a solid wage hit.
Right now I'm filling in a maternity leave contract, and when my boss offered it he felt I was fluent enough in regards to the position requirements, and since he had it in the budget, that he would pay my the full salary of the woman who is off. It is a mid-level position which is why it paid so good even though I wasn't finished with college.

I just had my 2nd interview today with a company, the job posting seemed promising before I applied and after the first interview it still seemed like a pretty good fit for a right out of school job. Not a career, but a starting point and stepping stone.
Met with them for the second time today and the wage is exactly half what I'm making now. Was a bit of a shocker, I hope my facial expression didn't sag when they told me the hourly $.
The job posting stated "above entry level" for the wage.. well to me the wage they offered isn't even entry level, I made more on my second and third year co-op placements.
Basically I was willing to take a $10/hour hit, and hoping it would be more around losing $5/hour. But this is kind of a lot worse than what I was willing to go down to. 70-75% my current wage is what I thought to be fair, not 50%.

What is the best way for me to ask for more? Most grads of my college program make $5-7 more an hour than what they offered me. I don't really want to come back to them sounding like whining (basically what I'm doing here on oppo lol) by saying "well I make *this* now. the job posting said *this*. everyone I know makes in *this* and *this* range" but what else is there to say?

For Sweden > MooseKnuckles 04/16/2014 at 18:13

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There isn't anything else to say; tell them exactly that.

They still might tell you to kick sand, however. If that happens, I suggest buying a Subaru Justy and taking up rallying.

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > MooseKnuckles 04/16/2014 at 18:16

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What For Sweden said. Tell them it's not above entry-level and that you'd be happy to work for entry-level, but it has to actually be entry-level pay, not intern-level pay with the words "above entry-level" slapped on it.

edit: but, pro-tip here, don't be as snarky as my comment may read. But you know that.

CAR_IS_MI > MooseKnuckles 04/16/2014 at 18:22

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I have taken jobs at less than what I felt they should have been at for the sake of taking the job (experience and what have you); my experience is that this is not worth it. DO NOT undervalue yourself just to take the position. If they will not pay you a reasonable value to which you feel you are worth (again reasonable, we all want to think were worth a million bucks...) then don't take the job, you will end up, like me, unsatisfied, and looking for a new position.

MooseKnuckles > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 04/16/2014 at 18:26

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I think I may consult my current boss tomorrow. He is a great guy that I trust and I know he has my best intentions. He'll experience this kind of thing a lot so it would be good to see his side, the employer's side, of things. I know when I tell him the wage they offered he'll laugh

MooseKnuckles > CAR_IS_MI 04/16/2014 at 18:35

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Good points. I know right now that I make more than I should, but what I was expecting they offer based on the job posting in my eyes is a fair wage, what actual entry level wage is I would have accepted, but what they did offer almost seems like being cheated.

CAR_IS_MI > MooseKnuckles 04/16/2014 at 18:47

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Relevant experience is relevant experience too though. If what you're doing now is in ANY way related to what you are looking at (for example, if you've been selling bibles door to door, and now you want to sell cars, sales experience is sales experience, even though bibles and cars are 2 very different things), the experience should allow for a bit of a better pay as well. Believe me when I say, being in an unsatisfying job that does not pay you what you feel you're worth is quite possibly the worst feeling in the world (as far as job related feels go).

MooseKnuckles > For Sweden 04/16/2014 at 18:50

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How does this sound as my first draft:

Hi Lee,
I mulled it over in detail last night, and before I give my boss at ____ official early notice towards leaving, I wanted discuss wage options. I'm quite interested in the opportunity and ____ sounds like a good and fair place to work.
The Job Posting stated "Above Entry Level" so I was thinking in the $23-24/hour area. That is a departure from what I am currently earning, but I expected that as I have been very fortunate with my position and salary with ______.
I based my thinking and moderate expectations on other graduates of the ______ program averaging earnings of $21-23/hour as a starting entry wage.
As I said, I am very interested in the opportunity to work with _____, would you be open to starting wage of $21/hour

Should I ask for more in line with what other people's starting wage was at other companies? Ask for more in line with "above entry level"?
I kind of already know I may not take this job now, but I may as well try. I didn't want to get into posting actual figures for wages but fuck it... To put it in perspective I'm making $32/hr now, they offered me $16/hr.

For Sweden > MooseKnuckles 04/16/2014 at 18:51

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It looks good to me, but I have zero HR experience.

MooseKnuckles > For Sweden 04/16/2014 at 18:54

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haha thanks

J. Walter Weatherman > MooseKnuckles 04/16/2014 at 19:58

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As someone that negotiates for a living, my first piece of advice would be to try to do this over the phone, not via email. In a situation like this, it is important that you come across as genuine and confident - you genuinely want to work for them, and aren't trying to play games with them, but you feel that a higher wage is in line with industry norms and that you are worth more money . That is something that is much easier to convey on the phone than in email. It is also much harder for them to say "no" to you when they are speaking to you directly.

That said, if a phone conversation is not an option, or if you simply don't have the confidence to go through with it (nothing to be ashamed of, most people are uncomfortable negotiating on their own behalf like this), a few suggested revisions to your email:

Hi Lee,

I mulled it over in detail last night, and before I give my boss at ____ official early notice towards leaving, I wanted discuss wage options. I'm quite interested in the opportunity and ____ sounds like a good and fair place to work; however, to be completely honest, the salary was significantly below what I was expecting. The job posting stated "Above Entry Level", and based on my conversations with other graduates of the ______ program, entry level wages appear to average around $21-23/hour. Additionally, this is a significant decrease from what I am currently earning. I understand that I have been very fortunate with my position and salary with ______, and that some drop in earnings was to be expected, however I did not expect the decrease to be quite this drastic.

Would you be open to starting wage around $23/hour? As I said, I am very interested in the opportunity to work with _____, and I look forward to being able to prove my value to the company.

MooseKnuckles > J. Walter Weatherman 04/16/2014 at 20:09

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That is some extremely helpful information. Thanks!
I was considering calling, I know it would be the best route, but I'm afraid I'll bitch out, I'm a pretty confident person but under some situations I lack the testicular fortitude needed!
I talked to someone else who was offered a job by them today (they are looking to hire 2-3 people) and they turned it down on the spot when they found out the wage.
I think I may wait until after Easter to contact them.
If I opt for the email route, I'm definitely stealing your revised version lol, my second draft was still weak compared to yours.

Thanks again!